“I didn’t know they were that fearless,” San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich said. “Maybe when you don’t know what the hell you’re doing, sometimes you just go do it.
I hated the AD trade then and now; I like following players As they develop. The Lakers profited in year one of their trade away all the talent, but they did it again two years running. My friends and
I know this was stupid and we quit playing hoops I’m high school. How come
Hi Marc, I just want you to know that the Tour de France will swing by a place called "Markstein", in eastern France, this year. That's pronounced just like your name, and I thought that you would find that funny, as a France enthusiast.
It’s in the Vosges, a beautiful mountain range near Strasbourg. The place is a really good spot to ski, absolutely wonderful in winter, with great cheese and wine ! Pretty sure you would love it :)
Stealing a point from "The Lowe Post": Doing the AD trade didn't also mean that the Lakers had to also trade for Russ and get rid of all their 2020 rotation guys. The AD trade was itself worth it; the other moves Pelinka/Buss/shadow GM LeBron made are separate things.
All the criticism of Russ and Ham is totally justified. Ham I'm willing to give a little slack because I expect him to make mistakes learning on the job. If he's still making the same mistakes in the second half of the season that's a big problem.
And...
Everybody wants to focus on Russ. It was a dumb shot but that dumb shot probably kept us from talking more about LBJ and AD not coming through at the end. Once Russ is gone, and he will be gone at some point, we're going to have to face the reality of an aging Superstar who can only play so many minutes and another guy who has not lived up to expectations.
When we traded for him we thought AD was a superstar who could take over games the way LeBron could. We were wrong.
In Portland they have Dame time.
LeBron has gotten too old to count on him at the end and there is no Davis time.
LeBron being too old to bring it home at the end of the game because he's played too many minutes to have energy left is a big big issue.
As for AD, 5 fouls or not, I wanted him to be aggressive on offense and win the game for us. Who cares if he didn't get a 6th foul if we lose the game. He has talents but he simply doesn't have the Will or the motor of a Superstar.
This is the guy we cashed in all our chips for and basically doomed ourselves to a number of years of sucking in the hopes we could get some championships. Sure there's the bubble but that's going to be it for quite a while.
Didn't there used to be some guy in LA named Kobe who when the game was on the line always wanted the ball. Real stars have that mentality.
AD has a lot of skills but he just doesn't have that Alpha mindset. Kuzma has more of it than AD. When we traded for AD we were counting on him to have that because we knew LBJ was going to decline at some point.
Ham shouldn't have to call his number. AD should be standing up in the huddle and saying get me the ball instead of playing soft trying not to foul out while he waits for somebody else to make a play. At 38 and after 38 minutes, LBJ doesn't have enough gas in the tank at the end of games to do much more than settle for a long 2 or 3.
So many complain about the Russ trade. Yes it was a disaster and
Despite the one bubble championship,
The AD trade was worse because it totally sabotaged our future long-term, not just for a year or two like the Russ trade.
---
What really needs to be talked about are the huge overpays that Pelinka did for AD and then Russ, the horrible waste of assets, Zubac for Muscala being the poster child for that, at best getting 30 cents on the dollar. After all that their incompetent owner extends her incompetent GM.
The Lakers spent years tanking, then years developing players, then cashed it all in or threw it all away so that they could get LeBron, AD, then Westbrook. For all of that they get one tainted bubble championship and probably suck for the next 10 to 15 years.
The Westbrook trade has been a disaster.
The AD trade was an overpay for a player who, aside from the bubble, has been a magnet for injuries and has had a low motor too many of the nights he has played.
Now we come to the domino that caused all the others to fall:
LBJ.
If all the Lakers get out of LBJ and all of the other things that stemmed from getting him, if all they get out of that is one bubble championship and then years of wandering in the wilderness:
Was it worth it to get LeBron James or would they have been better off building on what they had spent years on already?
The way things are looking now the Lakers are going to spend years on LBJ gradually declining, unless he suddenly falls off a cliff. That bubble championship might be it till the 2030s. Now it's 2 years ago and a lot of fans say it was worth it. Will they still say it was worth it if it's 2033 and the Lakers are just starting to be competitive again, especially if the Pelicans have 3 rings with players and picks from the AD trade?
The cherry on the whole thing could be the Pelicans getting Wenbanyama with the Lakers' pick.
I'm on the record over the years wondering about why they gave up so much given the lack of competition on the market for Davis, but it is what it is and they won with assets left over to potentially improve a championship roster. It certainly sucks they squandered those assets and now have such a bare cupboard, but that was known as soon as LeBron showed up. The key is to win as much as you can before those assets are drained. Wish they'd won more or been more relevant in the title picture than they've been but championships are the point of this and winning to help a city mourn Kobe's loss means quite a bit.
In hindsight, it looks really bad, and can be incredibly horrible if NO gets one of the first two picks in this draft.
It was always going to be risky with LeBron aging and AD having some injury history, and AD planning to go to the Lakers anyway the next year.
On average, picks aren't worth much, except for outliers, and these will become outliers.
The Westbrook trade was wrong not for the price so much as being the worst option and not allowing any other flexibility. Nobody knew at the time he would be such a negative regular season player. The anticipated floor was that he would provide some offense while AD and LeBron sat.
The AD trade wasn't too much, but its effects are compounded to make it look really bad.
I also think that after the failed Nash- Howard experiment, the Lakers had money to offer and none of the stars wanted to play with Kobe; they didn’t take an interview with the Lakers. Then Jenny took over, and fans and the press got on Magic for the job he did. Although he seemed to get a free pass for the way he left... As much as people seem to hate Pelinka, he delivered them a championship. Now everyone can’t take how bad they are and want them to use their only assets to make a trade. We know when 27&29 comes around, then we’ll be criticizing them for having made that trade now
Memory probably fails me but isn’t this como able to the Celtics trading for Garnett to get one ring? They basically were injured after that, Ray left and they were horrible for years...
They were competitive for a few years and made the Finals again. They didn't win again in part to injuries but also to the Heatles. Garnett is adored in Boston.
Boston then sold high on Garnett and Pierce, eventually getting Tatum.
They didn't suck for very long because Brad Stevens and Isaiah Thomas had a couple of surprising years when Ainge wanted them to tank.
The Lakers won one championship and immediately weren't good anymore. AD and LeBron won't be remembered for their time in LA.
The trade was worth it. Did they give up too much? Maybe. Outside of Ingram, none of the players they gave up up are clearly above average players on value contracts. It was worth the gamble. The problem was when they stacked that gamble with another gamble - trading away three good role players with youth and upside for an aging star that can't shoot or play defense. Pelinka has been a disaster. He has missed on big and small moves and even made cap mistakes where saving could have helped.
Posting this one on behalf of Johnny L in Los Angeles, who sent in these words:
One thing to call out as a Laker fan ... winning the chip after Kobe's passing had incredible meaning to me as a fan. It's easy in hindsight to say maybe the bubble chip wasn't worth all these current (and future) years of pain. But I recall that time period, where Kobe passed, then my grandfather passed from COVID, and basketball returning was such a reprieve from the hard time. Seeing my Lakers raise that championship trophy ... totally worth all the draft picks we gave up for AD. Would do this 100/100 times.
also think it's worth adding the AD trade (though not as well managed as it could've been) was not destructive at all compared to the subsequent moves LAL made to dismantle the 2020 title team & misdiagnose the team's needs + the correct style of players to fit around LeBron & AD. the most maddening part of it all is the repeated self sabotage
The G-League rights situation seems as asinine as the FIBA qualification windows. If a team shows a $150k commitment to a player, they should have first crack at his rights, right? What is the thought behind the "anything over 50k and you can't have him" stipulation?
So so SO much about G League roster rules is indeed baffling -- I'm with you -- but I actually get this one. I imagine they don't want deep-pocketed teams giving out huge guarantees to create a roster-building advantage over those that aren't.
If that's the reasoning I still can't buy it. There will always be owners who outspend their competitors to gain an advantage, as they should. Teams routinely go into the luxury tax for the sake of one player. The NBA should reward owners who are willing to pony up for basketball reasons, as opposed to the penny pinching Sarver's of the world. Spreading another million out between five, $200k guarantees isn't going to topple their multi billion dollar enterprise.
Daryl Morey was king of the six figure guarantee back in the day. I don't know how Leslie Alexander's finances stacked up to his peers, but Morey was routinely able to convince his owner of the value in shelling out $200-300k to multiple training camp invites competing for roster spots.
Those who were cut suited up Rio Grande Valley and the process led to Morey unearthing multiple Houston gems on what turned out to be bargain contracts.
I believe the question is wrong. Trade for AD was worth it. The real question should be, was it worth to make all the rooster decisions starting from acquiring Drummond. Lakers were scary, they had their championship core, got Gasol’s passing, stretching and D, Schröder on skates and more minutes for Bald Mamba. But they’ve screwed up Gasol with Drummond (starting 5!), then they give away their D with the Westbrook trade (KCP!) and not signing Caruso (no clue why). Most likely made Coach Vogel a bit insane. Lengthy, ball handling wing like Kuzma is always a needed player on the roster. But he’s in Washington as a part of that trade. I feel American media somehow omit asking this question (everyone wants to be friends with LeBron?), at least it looks like it from my place in Europe. Anyways so many other good and exciting teams in the NBA! Wish you all a great season and thanks Mr. Stein for the work!
Spurs and Jazz are half a game out of first place in the West., what the heck!! Who would have predicted that????
“I didn’t know they were that fearless,” San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich said. “Maybe when you don’t know what the hell you’re doing, sometimes you just go do it.
I hated the AD trade then and now; I like following players As they develop. The Lakers profited in year one of their trade away all the talent, but they did it again two years running. My friends and
I know this was stupid and we quit playing hoops I’m high school. How come
The lakers did all this dumb stuff?
Hi Marc, I just want you to know that the Tour de France will swing by a place called "Markstein", in eastern France, this year. That's pronounced just like your name, and I thought that you would find that funny, as a France enthusiast.
Definitely did not know that! Where exactly is it? Seems like a place I need to visit.
It’s in the Vosges, a beautiful mountain range near Strasbourg. The place is a really good spot to ski, absolutely wonderful in winter, with great cheese and wine ! Pretty sure you would love it :)
Mark., are you still doing the Spotify chats, or am I somehow missing them??
New audio stuff in the works (fingers crossed). Will share more when I can!
Stealing a point from "The Lowe Post": Doing the AD trade didn't also mean that the Lakers had to also trade for Russ and get rid of all their 2020 rotation guys. The AD trade was itself worth it; the other moves Pelinka/Buss/shadow GM LeBron made are separate things.
Zach Lowe points are always welcome ...
Came here to say this but now I don’t have to.
From a Lakers social media site
---
AD and LBJ
All the criticism of Russ and Ham is totally justified. Ham I'm willing to give a little slack because I expect him to make mistakes learning on the job. If he's still making the same mistakes in the second half of the season that's a big problem.
And...
Everybody wants to focus on Russ. It was a dumb shot but that dumb shot probably kept us from talking more about LBJ and AD not coming through at the end. Once Russ is gone, and he will be gone at some point, we're going to have to face the reality of an aging Superstar who can only play so many minutes and another guy who has not lived up to expectations.
When we traded for him we thought AD was a superstar who could take over games the way LeBron could. We were wrong.
In Portland they have Dame time.
LeBron has gotten too old to count on him at the end and there is no Davis time.
LeBron being too old to bring it home at the end of the game because he's played too many minutes to have energy left is a big big issue.
As for AD, 5 fouls or not, I wanted him to be aggressive on offense and win the game for us. Who cares if he didn't get a 6th foul if we lose the game. He has talents but he simply doesn't have the Will or the motor of a Superstar.
This is the guy we cashed in all our chips for and basically doomed ourselves to a number of years of sucking in the hopes we could get some championships. Sure there's the bubble but that's going to be it for quite a while.
Didn't there used to be some guy in LA named Kobe who when the game was on the line always wanted the ball. Real stars have that mentality.
AD has a lot of skills but he just doesn't have that Alpha mindset. Kuzma has more of it than AD. When we traded for AD we were counting on him to have that because we knew LBJ was going to decline at some point.
Ham shouldn't have to call his number. AD should be standing up in the huddle and saying get me the ball instead of playing soft trying not to foul out while he waits for somebody else to make a play. At 38 and after 38 minutes, LBJ doesn't have enough gas in the tank at the end of games to do much more than settle for a long 2 or 3.
So many complain about the Russ trade. Yes it was a disaster and
Despite the one bubble championship,
The AD trade was worse because it totally sabotaged our future long-term, not just for a year or two like the Russ trade.
---
What really needs to be talked about are the huge overpays that Pelinka did for AD and then Russ, the horrible waste of assets, Zubac for Muscala being the poster child for that, at best getting 30 cents on the dollar. After all that their incompetent owner extends her incompetent GM.
The Lakers spent years tanking, then years developing players, then cashed it all in or threw it all away so that they could get LeBron, AD, then Westbrook. For all of that they get one tainted bubble championship and probably suck for the next 10 to 15 years.
The Westbrook trade has been a disaster.
The AD trade was an overpay for a player who, aside from the bubble, has been a magnet for injuries and has had a low motor too many of the nights he has played.
Now we come to the domino that caused all the others to fall:
LBJ.
If all the Lakers get out of LBJ and all of the other things that stemmed from getting him, if all they get out of that is one bubble championship and then years of wandering in the wilderness:
Was it worth it to get LeBron James or would they have been better off building on what they had spent years on already?
The way things are looking now the Lakers are going to spend years on LBJ gradually declining, unless he suddenly falls off a cliff. That bubble championship might be it till the 2030s. Now it's 2 years ago and a lot of fans say it was worth it. Will they still say it was worth it if it's 2033 and the Lakers are just starting to be competitive again, especially if the Pelicans have 3 rings with players and picks from the AD trade?
The cherry on the whole thing could be the Pelicans getting Wenbanyama with the Lakers' pick.
It looks like the consensus is
AD trade: worth it
"Bubble" championship: counts the same as any other
Pelinka as GM of the year in 2019-20: massive error
Decisions after 2020: horrible
Ad's injuries after 2020: due to his work ethic rather than chance (consensus feeling. I don't have a personal opinion on this)
Consensus in terms of comments ... yes. The comments have been awesome and detailed, but the actual poll is still fairly close to down-the-middlle.
MIDDLE! Which still has only one L.
I'm on the record over the years wondering about why they gave up so much given the lack of competition on the market for Davis, but it is what it is and they won with assets left over to potentially improve a championship roster. It certainly sucks they squandered those assets and now have such a bare cupboard, but that was known as soon as LeBron showed up. The key is to win as much as you can before those assets are drained. Wish they'd won more or been more relevant in the title picture than they've been but championships are the point of this and winning to help a city mourn Kobe's loss means quite a bit.
In hindsight, it looks really bad, and can be incredibly horrible if NO gets one of the first two picks in this draft.
It was always going to be risky with LeBron aging and AD having some injury history, and AD planning to go to the Lakers anyway the next year.
On average, picks aren't worth much, except for outliers, and these will become outliers.
The Westbrook trade was wrong not for the price so much as being the worst option and not allowing any other flexibility. Nobody knew at the time he would be such a negative regular season player. The anticipated floor was that he would provide some offense while AD and LeBron sat.
The AD trade wasn't too much, but its effects are compounded to make it look really bad.
I also think that after the failed Nash- Howard experiment, the Lakers had money to offer and none of the stars wanted to play with Kobe; they didn’t take an interview with the Lakers. Then Jenny took over, and fans and the press got on Magic for the job he did. Although he seemed to get a free pass for the way he left... As much as people seem to hate Pelinka, he delivered them a championship. Now everyone can’t take how bad they are and want them to use their only assets to make a trade. We know when 27&29 comes around, then we’ll be criticizing them for having made that trade now
Memory probably fails me but isn’t this como able to the Celtics trading for Garnett to get one ring? They basically were injured after that, Ray left and they were horrible for years...
Meant to comparable
They were competitive for a few years and made the Finals again. They didn't win again in part to injuries but also to the Heatles. Garnett is adored in Boston.
Boston then sold high on Garnett and Pierce, eventually getting Tatum.
They didn't suck for very long because Brad Stevens and Isaiah Thomas had a couple of surprising years when Ainge wanted them to tank.
The Lakers won one championship and immediately weren't good anymore. AD and LeBron won't be remembered for their time in LA.
Actually they will be remembered: for dooming the team to suck for years because everything it took to get the two of them destroyed the future.
AD in particular will be remembered for always being injured.
The trade was worth it. Did they give up too much? Maybe. Outside of Ingram, none of the players they gave up up are clearly above average players on value contracts. It was worth the gamble. The problem was when they stacked that gamble with another gamble - trading away three good role players with youth and upside for an aging star that can't shoot or play defense. Pelinka has been a disaster. He has missed on big and small moves and even made cap mistakes where saving could have helped.
Posting this one on behalf of Johnny L in Los Angeles, who sent in these words:
One thing to call out as a Laker fan ... winning the chip after Kobe's passing had incredible meaning to me as a fan. It's easy in hindsight to say maybe the bubble chip wasn't worth all these current (and future) years of pain. But I recall that time period, where Kobe passed, then my grandfather passed from COVID, and basketball returning was such a reprieve from the hard time. Seeing my Lakers raise that championship trophy ... totally worth all the draft picks we gave up for AD. Would do this 100/100 times.
also think it's worth adding the AD trade (though not as well managed as it could've been) was not destructive at all compared to the subsequent moves LAL made to dismantle the 2020 title team & misdiagnose the team's needs + the correct style of players to fit around LeBron & AD. the most maddening part of it all is the repeated self sabotage
The Lakers got a ring. That's the purpose of AD trade, so do they deserve to regret now?
The G-League rights situation seems as asinine as the FIBA qualification windows. If a team shows a $150k commitment to a player, they should have first crack at his rights, right? What is the thought behind the "anything over 50k and you can't have him" stipulation?
So so SO much about G League roster rules is indeed baffling -- I'm with you -- but I actually get this one. I imagine they don't want deep-pocketed teams giving out huge guarantees to create a roster-building advantage over those that aren't.
If that's the reasoning I still can't buy it. There will always be owners who outspend their competitors to gain an advantage, as they should. Teams routinely go into the luxury tax for the sake of one player. The NBA should reward owners who are willing to pony up for basketball reasons, as opposed to the penny pinching Sarver's of the world. Spreading another million out between five, $200k guarantees isn't going to topple their multi billion dollar enterprise.
Daryl Morey was king of the six figure guarantee back in the day. I don't know how Leslie Alexander's finances stacked up to his peers, but Morey was routinely able to convince his owner of the value in shelling out $200-300k to multiple training camp invites competing for roster spots.
Those who were cut suited up Rio Grande Valley and the process led to Morey unearthing multiple Houston gems on what turned out to be bargain contracts.
I will check to make sure my interpretation is indeed correct.
Hi,
I believe the question is wrong. Trade for AD was worth it. The real question should be, was it worth to make all the rooster decisions starting from acquiring Drummond. Lakers were scary, they had their championship core, got Gasol’s passing, stretching and D, Schröder on skates and more minutes for Bald Mamba. But they’ve screwed up Gasol with Drummond (starting 5!), then they give away their D with the Westbrook trade (KCP!) and not signing Caruso (no clue why). Most likely made Coach Vogel a bit insane. Lengthy, ball handling wing like Kuzma is always a needed player on the roster. But he’s in Washington as a part of that trade. I feel American media somehow omit asking this question (everyone wants to be friends with LeBron?), at least it looks like it from my place in Europe. Anyways so many other good and exciting teams in the NBA! Wish you all a great season and thanks Mr. Stein for the work!
Cheers!
Coming next Tuesday: Guaranteed coverage of the other 29 teams. Because it'll be a Power Rankings Tuesday.