I have not cast official votes on season-ending individual honors in #thisleague since the 2016-17 season ... but it's still a must to cast imaginary votes for discussion purposes
Another factor here: Durant, Steph, LeBron ... several of the top Americans are in their mid-to-late 30s now and can't go all-out in the regular season to chase MVP.
I hate into say it, but Tatum seems like the likeliest American to win MVP. He took another step forward this year and it’s not hard to see him getting even better.
Just as remarkable as it is to see Victor Wembenyana gain so much views and clicks, it’s wild to me that Jordan Poole gets more engagement and interest than either Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid, who are both players with international ties and audiences and MVP contenders.
Sabonis and Mitchell both have strong cases. I think Mitchell's is stronger because it's hard to say which King had a stronger MVP case: Sabonis or Fox.
I think he's top 4, maybe top 3 but I've watched 70ish Pistons games this year. He was given a lot of the offensive reins over the last third of the season and really excelled when the guard situation was pretty barren otherwise and seems to have developed good chemistry with Duren and Bagley.
Hoping he gets some love whenever the votes do come out.
It never dawned on me until I read this -- it's funny that the awards for what is likely the world's most data-driven league are still so subjective especially with terms like "valuable" and "improved." I wouldn't argue to change them and I know defining the proper metrics would be even more controversial -- it just strikes me as funny.
Remember: #thisleague is always worried about people not caring enough about the regular season. Passionate arguments about MVP start in October because of the subjective factors you mention and #thisleague secretly loves it.
At least you got MVP correct. Embiid is just automatic scorer this year. He's perfected his game. You did forget to mention Jokic total lack of rim protection as a factor. Not sure this is never mentioned against him.
Agree on most others but would go Brogdon and JJJ.
Jokic's rim protection is NOT a factor for me in this discussion because MVP votes are NOT assessments of a player's overall quality or skill set. To me -- stress ME -- MVP votes judge someone's season. If the question is Best Two-Way Player, we could have ruled Jokic out before the season started. Jokic had an MVP-worthy season without his rim protection.
Def respect your bball acumen but your response baffles me. How do you discount half the game? The award is not best offensive player. If you bleed points how does that not factor into your case for MVP?
I am not discounting that half of the game. I am saying that the MVP award, as I have always seen it, is to determine who had the best SEASON. Your approach suggests that only great two-way players can have the best season. I disagree. People might want to dispute Nash's second MVP, which is obviously fine for whoever sees it that way, but the first one was one zillion percent correct. Why? Even as a non-defender, Nash was the runaway No. 1 reason that Phoenix went from 29 to 62 wins. And anyone on that Suns team would say so. "Bleeds points" on Joker is also misleading hyperbole. Denver's on/off stats with Jokic off the floor are ridiculously in his favor. If we do it your way, we could pick Jo or Giannis in October without even watching one game because they are obviously the two best two-way players in the world. MVP was NEVER intended to be a Best Player In The World award in MY view. If it was, Jordan would have won 10 straight MVPs at least.
This is the beauty of the MVP debate and why the league LIKES it vague. If James Madison and Marc Stein were both voting, they might see it two completely different ways and talk about those differences frequently, which is more appealing to the league office than hearing us go on and on about load management.
Only half-right. I knew that 4/100 was NOT an overpay. But I can't pretend to claim that I knew that Brunson would become THIS good in NYC this fast. He did it again. Got better again. Hat's off to him.
I have bikerstaff as COY. Brown 2nd. But my argument is that JB did the most actual coaching. Brown second. Give it to either one but why no love for JB? DPOY : Id give it to Herbert Jones, Giannis 2nd, and hell, maybe JJ Jr third. 6th man: immanuel quickly by a wide margin. Rook is Paulo....walker second. Most improved has to be Lauri.
Keep the Buffalo Braves references coming. 'That's 2 for MaAdoo'...Ernie D. and Randy Smith are an underrated and forgotten 'big 3'.
Does Bridges get an extra 1/82 of his salary for the 83rd game?
Don't think it makes any difference because salary is not tied to games played ... but will double-check.
If Zion could stay healthy 🤷♂️
Pre-analytics era, Brunson, and Ja would get more consideration based on team success and Wow factor
As of today Tatum and Booker seem the closest to grab an MVP someday.
Another factor here: Durant, Steph, LeBron ... several of the top Americans are in their mid-to-late 30s now and can't go all-out in the regular season to chase MVP.
Marc not that you are a medical expert but do you think Zion can ever stay healthy without dropping a decent amount of weight?
My dream scenario is that both of us coming back 20 pounds lighter next season. Somehow I like his chances better than mine.
I hate into say it, but Tatum seems like the likeliest American to win MVP. He took another step forward this year and it’s not hard to see him getting even better.
Any thoughts on the clutch player award, Marc?
I didn't it include here but I think Fox is gonna win the clutch honor pretty easily.
Just as remarkable as it is to see Victor Wembenyana gain so much views and clicks, it’s wild to me that Jordan Poole gets more engagement and interest than either Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid, who are both players with international ties and audiences and MVP contenders.
The Warriors are that huge. I don't find it too surprising.
I have Sabonis over Shai for the 5th spot.
Sabonis and Mitchell both have strong cases. I think Mitchell's is stronger because it's hard to say which King had a stronger MVP case: Sabonis or Fox.
No love for Jaden Ivey.
I've shown Ivey love many times in the past ... but I did omit him here because I didn't see a need to go past the top 3-4 in the ROY hunt.
I think he's top 4, maybe top 3 but I've watched 70ish Pistons games this year. He was given a lot of the offensive reins over the last third of the season and really excelled when the guard situation was pretty barren otherwise and seems to have developed good chemistry with Duren and Bagley.
Hoping he gets some love whenever the votes do come out.
WHAT KIND OF $%#&* MORON VOTES FOR....? ;-)
It never dawned on me until I read this -- it's funny that the awards for what is likely the world's most data-driven league are still so subjective especially with terms like "valuable" and "improved." I wouldn't argue to change them and I know defining the proper metrics would be even more controversial -- it just strikes me as funny.
Good stuff. Thanks, as always, Marc!
Remember: #thisleague is always worried about people not caring enough about the regular season. Passionate arguments about MVP start in October because of the subjective factors you mention and #thisleague secretly loves it.
At least you got MVP correct. Embiid is just automatic scorer this year. He's perfected his game. You did forget to mention Jokic total lack of rim protection as a factor. Not sure this is never mentioned against him.
Agree on most others but would go Brogdon and JJJ.
Jokic's rim protection is NOT a factor for me in this discussion because MVP votes are NOT assessments of a player's overall quality or skill set. To me -- stress ME -- MVP votes judge someone's season. If the question is Best Two-Way Player, we could have ruled Jokic out before the season started. Jokic had an MVP-worthy season without his rim protection.
Def respect your bball acumen but your response baffles me. How do you discount half the game? The award is not best offensive player. If you bleed points how does that not factor into your case for MVP?
I am not discounting that half of the game. I am saying that the MVP award, as I have always seen it, is to determine who had the best SEASON. Your approach suggests that only great two-way players can have the best season. I disagree. People might want to dispute Nash's second MVP, which is obviously fine for whoever sees it that way, but the first one was one zillion percent correct. Why? Even as a non-defender, Nash was the runaway No. 1 reason that Phoenix went from 29 to 62 wins. And anyone on that Suns team would say so. "Bleeds points" on Joker is also misleading hyperbole. Denver's on/off stats with Jokic off the floor are ridiculously in his favor. If we do it your way, we could pick Jo or Giannis in October without even watching one game because they are obviously the two best two-way players in the world. MVP was NEVER intended to be a Best Player In The World award in MY view. If it was, Jordan would have won 10 straight MVPs at least.
That's not exactly what I am saying. What I mean is when it is close how does defense not play a factor at all?
Maybe it is hyperbolic but Jokic is so good on offense which is why he his team does better not because of his defense.
And to your point maybe Jordan should have won 10 straight.
This is the beauty of the MVP debate and why the league LIKES it vague. If James Madison and Marc Stein were both voting, they might see it two completely different ways and talk about those differences frequently, which is more appealing to the league office than hearing us go on and on about load management.
by the way marc...you were right about brunson. Props.
Only half-right. I knew that 4/100 was NOT an overpay. But I can't pretend to claim that I knew that Brunson would become THIS good in NYC this fast. He did it again. Got better again. Hat's off to him.
I have bikerstaff as COY. Brown 2nd. But my argument is that JB did the most actual coaching. Brown second. Give it to either one but why no love for JB? DPOY : Id give it to Herbert Jones, Giannis 2nd, and hell, maybe JJ Jr third. 6th man: immanuel quickly by a wide margin. Rook is Paulo....walker second. Most improved has to be Lauri.