I like as well to agree you, to hope they do putting a RESPECK on d Jerry West name; d guy was soooo top legend, was even chose for a MVP in d finals when is side did lost ! but his play so good was select for MVP! In d program they make him looks like a just a mad tosser, a just yelling guy who it’s always so mad everyone
Concerning All-NBA, last year Embiid had more points then Kawhi, but Kawhi was a 1st team forward and Embiid 2nd team center. So for putting the teams together, there seems to be another wrinkle.
I know I'm a little late but I saw the first episode. Number one, Jerry West. I agree with all Marc's points. He was (is) a tortured soul but a great and dignified man. He was a beloved teammate who was very welcoming to African American teammates in the early '60's when it was not so easy. When we did a podcast wit him when Elgin Baylor was ailing, he was so emotional about his friend. That ain't the guy I saw in episode #1. He is incredibly self reflective and humble. I did chuckle when they did the bit with the logo and animated it into a rage filled parody. And while I'm sure the 1969 Finals were incredibly painful, three years layer his 69-13 Lakers won it all ... including a 33 game winning streak. One of the 3-4 greatest teams in NBA history. They could have shown that.
Thanks Marc for pointing to the pile of dogs*** the show displayed.
Problem is, in today’s world history of any kind is learned by many only through movies, tv shows and fictional books, so every lie is a little piece in the building of a history full of fake news and blatant mistakes.
That’s why “we” (as a society) must ask for “realism” in those kind of things, but I know this is an issue only for old geezer like me, born in another century...
Very kind of you to say. I was only on the Laker beat for two years but it was super eventful. The first season was Magic's brief comeback for the second half of 1995-96 campaign. The second season was Year 1 for Shaq and Kobe. Life-changing experiences.
I heard an interview with someone who worked on the show that they made the decision not to talk to any of the real people. Given how often we get sanitized approved biographies now, I am not unhappy they wanted to avoid that, but surely there was a way to talk to the principals and not end up with inaccurate portrayals. In the end, I am not sure you can win with docudrama. It's either hagiographic or iconoclastic, and never the actual truth.
I would humbly suggest that the show's creative team didn't talk to the Laker people they wanted to speak to because those people didn't want to participate in the show. This is drama, so nothing compels them to stick to the most well-reported truths, but even a
sports drama -- on this scorecard -- can't have credibility without staying somewhat close to the truth.
Bro d guy who it’s d create show seems a proper GIT, he was screw over d Bill Ferrell from play d roll of d Owner of d Laker , mr Dr. Buss, Jerry . Maybe his a just bollox but I did heard that as well , so d guy maybe it’s a not nice bloke for lie to cheating is M8
Appreciate you setting the record straight on Jerry West, from someone who covered him during his Laker days. Seeing him portrayed as the villain in episode 1 hits a sore spot for me, as a fan, because it’s a stark reminder that he no longer is with our team, and we’d be sooooo much better with him in the organization. Alas…
I did find it comical that you brought up how you used to refer to him as ‘Jerry Stressed,’ given the conversation today about Russell Westbrook chafing at the ‘Westbrick’ nickname that certain media members and social media fans throw at him and his family.
Definitely shows no one is immune to having their names changed to punny nicknames that may refer to an unfavorable character trait. Back then, though “Jerry Stressed” did not draw even one batted eye, whereas now, that nickname would have gone viral in today’s social media climate.
I enjoyed the pilot episode as a TV fan mostly, as I found it entertaining. But, I get why anyone might be annoyed by this “artistic license,” if you know the real person. For that reason, I usually am against watching biopics, in general, because someone inherently (and often unnecessarily) becomes a villain to accentuate the protagonist (in this case, Buss) of the story.
I do think, though, there is the ability for people like me to be able to separate the truth from the entertainment and still appreciate both. Hope there are others more like me who feel similarly.
Like I said: I will watch every second of the series no matter what. But Episode 1 strayed so far from real-life events that I think it severely damaged its own credibility. My first favorite sports team in life was the 1970s Yankees. I felt like The Bronx Is Burning series recreated those events pretty well. But I was a Yankees fan who wasn't even 10-years-old at the time. That series took me inside that locker room, or so I believed, like I never could have dreamt as a kid. Maybe you're right ... maybe the beat writers who covered those Yankees teams felt just as dismayed by what they watched as I was watching Episode 1 of Winning Time. But I don't think The Bronx Is Burning strayed from history nearly as much as Winning Time did Sunday night. The West portrayal and the Magic/Nixon party scene were absolutely ridiculous bursts of fiction. I guess I have to concede that some found the HBO Jerry to be entertaining, but the Magic/Norman game of one-on-one added absolutely nothing except nonsense.
Friends, hallo, I am disagree with you about, that. Was read another places and was maybe heard in d somewhere can be maybe was Simmons pods cast, d Magics was having a some bit of a tensions w d guy Nixon’s because his not even use to d Los angels yet, because his was stil so young Innit, his grow up in d Michigan so it’s was coming to d new flashy place and his start to getting can say cocky as well I tinkin em ; I think they like to showing a some also competitive guys, because may be can also be d Rick Nixon’s was a jealousy of magic ? Because his maybe tinkin em d owner it’s like him more and his bring him to d another party as well with, him, or fancy, restaurant as well. Don’t forget that , friends, d guy magic his look just like friendly guy just and is always looks happy and loves smile just , but , can be also more competitive guy in d sport. As well I know d magic was very competitively with d Larry Birds as well, don’t forget, they did even play in a final match in d college for d basket tournament college ! Bird was for many years so sad about , because, his , side, was outclass by d Magic side. He was so sick of magic I tinkin em. Can be, as well, he was, like to, have more attention or more high wages? I don’t know so much about basket from this time since I was no even born yet . Cheers!
I think I listed seven names for five spots and I won't narrow it down to five until I have to! One day after the season. Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Ja, Steph and DeRozan. Am I leaving anyone else out who merits First Team consideration?
Are we going to see a followup post to this after the season is done? Can't judge a show by its pilot.
I like as well to agree you, to hope they do putting a RESPECK on d Jerry West name; d guy was soooo top legend, was even chose for a MVP in d finals when is side did lost ! but his play so good was select for MVP! In d program they make him looks like a just a mad tosser, a just yelling guy who it’s always so mad everyone
Concerning All-NBA, last year Embiid had more points then Kawhi, but Kawhi was a 1st team forward and Embiid 2nd team center. So for putting the teams together, there seems to be another wrinkle.
Idea for the complementary Substack: Stein’s Premier League Takes.
If I remember correctly, you are also a fan of the Premier League. Maybe you could share some stories.
I know I'm a little late but I saw the first episode. Number one, Jerry West. I agree with all Marc's points. He was (is) a tortured soul but a great and dignified man. He was a beloved teammate who was very welcoming to African American teammates in the early '60's when it was not so easy. When we did a podcast wit him when Elgin Baylor was ailing, he was so emotional about his friend. That ain't the guy I saw in episode #1. He is incredibly self reflective and humble. I did chuckle when they did the bit with the logo and animated it into a rage filled parody. And while I'm sure the 1969 Finals were incredibly painful, three years layer his 69-13 Lakers won it all ... including a 33 game winning streak. One of the 3-4 greatest teams in NBA history. They could have shown that.
Thanks Marc for pointing to the pile of dogs*** the show displayed.
Problem is, in today’s world history of any kind is learned by many only through movies, tv shows and fictional books, so every lie is a little piece in the building of a history full of fake news and blatant mistakes.
That’s why “we” (as a society) must ask for “realism” in those kind of things, but I know this is an issue only for old geezer like me, born in another century...
P.S. the new app is a blast.
Great stuff Re Winning Time and West.
Someday I’d love to read your own memoir of the years you covered the Lakers.
Very kind of you to say. I was only on the Laker beat for two years but it was super eventful. The first season was Magic's brief comeback for the second half of 1995-96 campaign. The second season was Year 1 for Shaq and Kobe. Life-changing experiences.
I heard an interview with someone who worked on the show that they made the decision not to talk to any of the real people. Given how often we get sanitized approved biographies now, I am not unhappy they wanted to avoid that, but surely there was a way to talk to the principals and not end up with inaccurate portrayals. In the end, I am not sure you can win with docudrama. It's either hagiographic or iconoclastic, and never the actual truth.
I would humbly suggest that the show's creative team didn't talk to the Laker people they wanted to speak to because those people didn't want to participate in the show. This is drama, so nothing compels them to stick to the most well-reported truths, but even a
sports drama -- on this scorecard -- can't have credibility without staying somewhat close to the truth.
Bro d guy who it’s d create show seems a proper GIT, he was screw over d Bill Ferrell from play d roll of d Owner of d Laker , mr Dr. Buss, Jerry . Maybe his a just bollox but I did heard that as well , so d guy maybe it’s a not nice bloke for lie to cheating is M8
To cheating the Bill Ferrell. His not even look more similar to d guy! i don’t tinkin em
Appreciate you setting the record straight on Jerry West, from someone who covered him during his Laker days. Seeing him portrayed as the villain in episode 1 hits a sore spot for me, as a fan, because it’s a stark reminder that he no longer is with our team, and we’d be sooooo much better with him in the organization. Alas…
I did find it comical that you brought up how you used to refer to him as ‘Jerry Stressed,’ given the conversation today about Russell Westbrook chafing at the ‘Westbrick’ nickname that certain media members and social media fans throw at him and his family.
Definitely shows no one is immune to having their names changed to punny nicknames that may refer to an unfavorable character trait. Back then, though “Jerry Stressed” did not draw even one batted eye, whereas now, that nickname would have gone viral in today’s social media climate.
I enjoyed the pilot episode as a TV fan mostly, as I found it entertaining. But, I get why anyone might be annoyed by this “artistic license,” if you know the real person. For that reason, I usually am against watching biopics, in general, because someone inherently (and often unnecessarily) becomes a villain to accentuate the protagonist (in this case, Buss) of the story.
I do think, though, there is the ability for people like me to be able to separate the truth from the entertainment and still appreciate both. Hope there are others more like me who feel similarly.
Looking forward to episode 2!
Like I said: I will watch every second of the series no matter what. But Episode 1 strayed so far from real-life events that I think it severely damaged its own credibility. My first favorite sports team in life was the 1970s Yankees. I felt like The Bronx Is Burning series recreated those events pretty well. But I was a Yankees fan who wasn't even 10-years-old at the time. That series took me inside that locker room, or so I believed, like I never could have dreamt as a kid. Maybe you're right ... maybe the beat writers who covered those Yankees teams felt just as dismayed by what they watched as I was watching Episode 1 of Winning Time. But I don't think The Bronx Is Burning strayed from history nearly as much as Winning Time did Sunday night. The West portrayal and the Magic/Nixon party scene were absolutely ridiculous bursts of fiction. I guess I have to concede that some found the HBO Jerry to be entertaining, but the Magic/Norman game of one-on-one added absolutely nothing except nonsense.
Friends, hallo, I am disagree with you about, that. Was read another places and was maybe heard in d somewhere can be maybe was Simmons pods cast, d Magics was having a some bit of a tensions w d guy Nixon’s because his not even use to d Los angels yet, because his was stil so young Innit, his grow up in d Michigan so it’s was coming to d new flashy place and his start to getting can say cocky as well I tinkin em ; I think they like to showing a some also competitive guys, because may be can also be d Rick Nixon’s was a jealousy of magic ? Because his maybe tinkin em d owner it’s like him more and his bring him to d another party as well with, him, or fancy, restaurant as well. Don’t forget that , friends, d guy magic his look just like friendly guy just and is always looks happy and loves smile just , but , can be also more competitive guy in d sport. As well I know d magic was very competitively with d Larry Birds as well, don’t forget, they did even play in a final match in d college for d basket tournament college ! Bird was for many years so sad about , because, his , side, was outclass by d Magic side. He was so sick of magic I tinkin em. Can be, as well, he was, like to, have more attention or more high wages? I don’t know so much about basket from this time since I was no even born yet . Cheers!
Who would you vote for if you got to for First Team All NBA?
I think I listed seven names for five spots and I won't narrow it down to five until I have to! One day after the season. Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Ja, Steph and DeRozan. Am I leaving anyone else out who merits First Team consideration?
Well ... if Boston finishes the season at 50-32 (they need to go 10-5 as of Friday March 11) ... Tatum could sneak past DDeR